I’ve spent the evening making apple sauce and thinking about America. Growing up apple sauce was a seasonal thing, something, like roast potatoes and trifle inherently part of Christmas dinner. Apple sauce as snack, baking ingredient, regular supermarket stock, isn’t a particularly British thing, but we did eat plenty of stewed apple and there isn’t really much of a difference. I love cooked apple in all it’s forms and the idea of preserving local, organic apples and having apple sauce on hand ready to eat, is hugely appealing and something I probably wouldn’t have thought of without the Americans I’ve gotten to know online, and in real life.
America has also been on my mind today, after reading about the sad result of Maine’s election. Of course, equality and marriage rights are important always and everywhere (and the idea of allowing the majority to vote over minority rights is frankly terrifying), but visiting the US this year really hit home how important they are not just on principle but in very practical ways. At home marriage just isn’t such a big deal, of course lots of people choose to get married (and while the civil partnership name is problematic it’s viewed as marriage and has not caused the world to end), but it generally seems to be a choice that’s made for personal reasons. I know a great many people in long term, committed relationships who aren’t married, for a myriad of reasons, but the important thing is that, it isn’t necessary to them, although there are some rights that marriage grants here.
I was constantly surprised in America by just how many people I met who were married, who planned to get married, and who perceived marriage as important, normal and even necessary. At first I was pretty surprised by this, and as someone who spends quite so much time online and immersed in American culture as I do, I wasn’t expecting to find many unexpected cultural differences. And so I started asking questions, and the answers were revealing and consistent. Of course Americans get married for many of the same personal reasons as people at home do, but they also had far more practical reasons. Nowhere should who you love make you a second class citizen, but in America, this seems so much less abstract and so much more about practical realities. Which is making me sad today, and the childish comforts of apple sauce, isn’t going to fix that, but more people speaking out has got to help.
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L. Metcalf, you are everything that is wrong with American society and a disgrace to the founding fathers who did their best to separate religion from secular matters (like the civil institution of marriage).
Homosexuality is an important biological necessity. The Bible, if I can be so blunt, is a historically inaccurate, biased, mistranslated, and allegorical document. Do yourself a favor and consult a Bible group that studies in the original ancient Greek or Hebrew. Ask yourself, in Leviticus, why the word “shekab” refers to rape when the scripture discusses heterosexuals, but suddenly just means “man lying with man” in a single passage condemning homosexuality. You don’t find that curious? Wait until you get to “arsenokoites.”
This is all very interesting to me. I’m French and live with my partner of 10 years who is English. We live in Germany and have two boys together. I have been able to witness people’s opinion on marriage in the three countries. In France, over 1/2 of the kids are born out of wedlock, let’s just say that it’s totally normal and more and more people contract a civil partnership for practical and legal reasons. They don’t believe that marriage is necessary. Nobody there sees our own situation as strange at all. In the UK, I have experienced mixed reactions. From the my partner’s relatives, I have never heard any question in the style of “when are you going to get married?” or felt that we should be married. But, when I first got pregnant, a few of my British colleagues told me immediately: “when are you getting married?” They were actually quite puzzled when I told them we didn’t intend to get married because we were having a child. I have a feeling there are still a lot of Brits who believe that, when children are born, you got to get married. Now, let’s come to Germany! Here, every single German couple I know who has children is married! People always assume we are married because we have children and I am always called Frau (Mrs) … (my partner’s name)! That is actually pretty annoying to me! I have inquired about civil partnership here in Germany and have been told that it was only open to homosexuals (I think it’s wonderful they have that option), not to heterosexual couples, because they can get married! I wouldn’t go as far as saying I’m being discriminated for being heterosexual here, but I’m still blown away by this!
I am one of the aforementioned Christians getting slammed on the boards. Being afraid of being mocked, however, will never intimidate me into silence. Everyone has the right to give their opinion, and I am on L. Metcalf’s side.
It is regrettable to me that so many Christians get a ‘bad rap’ because they do have very hateful attitudes toward homosexuals. “They are going to hell!” etc., etc. This is not God’s way at all, which is first and foremost based on love. God has dictated that a man and a woman should be together, and also that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. These are not mutually exclusive terms. Our place as Christians is not to judge and hate, but to adhere to our values and try to teach, in love, to our fellow citizens the way God has intended our lives to be. If people in sin choose to follow a different path, I don’t judge or hate. I have plenty of my own sins to worry about. God is the ultimate judge and He’s the only one who truly knows our hearts. My homosexual friends know where I stand on this issue, and we’ve moved on. In my book, it’s wrong, it’s a sin, with the awareness of my many sins and with a non-judgmental attitude I’ve said my piece, and now it’s between them and God. End of story, and now we can get back to knitting.
I’m a Swede, and living in Sweden. Making apple sauce has been an important part of my upbringing too, maybe this is the case everywhere where there’s an abundance of apples during autumn?
In Sweden, we have had a tradition since the seventies to not marry but just live together, but that has caused a problem since the inheritance legislation doesn’t acknowledge these relationships (regardless if they are hetero- or homosexual), which is currently and vividly debated.
I will admit to living in Maine and being extremely embarrassed about the results of the vote. I don’t agree with the way in which the US views marriage, but who am I to tell anyone they cannot get married if they want to.
Thank you Ysolda. I completely agree. I have little patience for those who claim they are against equal rights for gay people on “religious” grounds. If the scripture is the basis for their politics, why aren’t they leading the charge to make divorce illegal? Or to make adultery punishable by jail time? Hmmm…. Seems to me that if they want to “defend” marriage, that might be a good place to start.
As a Mainer who was very emotionally involved in the No on 1 campaign (which was to keep gay marriage), your post made me cry.
[http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php]
I love baking anything with apples, fall being my favorite season. Apples are just so integral. Your pictures of those jars of homemade applesauce brought cheer to my day.
I’m echoing Sara, above: it was unexpectedly (I thought I was “over it”) touching to see your comment today (Friday). The defeat of the equal marriage idea was tough for many of us Mainers. . .but as many friends have reminded me, civil rights didn’t happen right away, either, but they happened. So on we go. Thanks for your words.
I am a Christian (nondenominational) in agreement with Lauren, not Julia. The infamous line about loving thy neighbor in Romans 13 actually concludes with, “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” My God has much more to say about those who invoke His hate when Jesus only spoke of love, than two adults of the same gender wanting to publically acknowledge the long-term potential of their relationship and legally protect their families.
Amen, Eliza. I am strongly in favor of same-sex marriage rights, but as a Christian, have other issues swirling around in my head. However, I think you’re spot on in emphasizing love over hate when it comes to working out issues of social and civil policy. I wish more Americans would be willing to do that – on both sides of the fence.
Thanks Ysolda for writing about this. The world of online knitting is way too heterosexist and people need an occasional kick up the ass.
There was a time in America when we used the Constitution and Declaration of Independence as guidance to create our laws, not the bible. Indeed that is what most advanced societies have done since the Enlightenment. These sorts of votes about issues that are blatantly enshrined in the constitution (and should never be put to the public in the first place) do nothing but placate the bigots and fool people into thinking they live in a genuine democracy. This is the system we are forcibly importing to the rest of the world through war and it’s good how? But whatever, I moved to the UK and I’m pretty pleased about that right now.
To anybody who hides behind the bible to justify their homophobia I have to ask: do you ever eat pork/shellfish, have sex before marriage, have sex during your period, do any kind of work on the sabbath? You can’t only pay attention to the rules god made that don’t affect your lifestyle.
Thank you for posting this, Ysolda. It’s nice to see that someone who writes such nice patterns also has a humane and empathetic attitude towards other.
i never commented in a journal of someone i don’t know in real live before but your post just said al the things i felt today. I’m dutch and i was extrordinairy proud of our country for being so openminded, gay marriage, abortion, ethaunasia laws etc. But lately thing seem to change for the worse …more violance in the streets against same sex couple etc. It makes me sad. I had so high hopes for my country and the rest of the world. I just hope that as always with great change some people struggle out of fear to keep things the same. And that in the end progress will winn.
Anyway not a cheerful reply but i hope the apple sauce cheered you up. I’m going to make some hot chocolate that helps a bit too
Yes, Americans value marriage. Allison (Nov. 5th, 2009; 8:03pm) gave a good explanation on why this is so. The anger directed at Americans in this post made me a little sad.
Yes, Americans value marriage. Allison (Nov. 5th, 2009; 8:03pm) gave a good explanation on why this is so. The negative judgement directed at Americans in this post made me a little sad.
it is always nice to hear your opinion coming from another-it’s part of humans being social people. It is however unfortunate that this can result in some points being drowned out by a crowd of affirmation. I really believe the discussion emphasis needs to highlight personal freedoms and rights. It is tragic that people in a long term relationships might not have the right to visit each other in hospital- or even be able to talk to the doctors, that an estranged or distant family members might have the only say in their care or decisions about life support. Really none of the legal rights of partnership need to be linked to a sexual relationship or any of the personal opinions of religion, ‘right’/'wrong’/'who cares they can do their thing and I’ll do mine’ – what happens if all your family is dead? You should still have the right to choose who you trust with your own wellbeing. I from NZ and I don’t think our laws are ideal yet.And they will likely never be- some find 3 years creeps up pretty quickly. There is as much variety in relationships as there are relationships.
So I would hope people of all religions and attitudes to marriage would be able to see that, independant from ’sin’, sex, and relationships of all kinds, people die. Lives change and marriage laws and the rights of all individuals eventually become personal. I spent two really happy years of my childhood in the US. I really sorry that opinions expressed above and in other posts may have hurt some people’s feelings. It does seem true that Americans as a society value marriage more than here and so that makes it hard for people who want to get married for social reasons. But really the most pressing issue is people having the right to exchange legal rights and to have some say over their own body by being able to nominate who they want to be their ‘next of kin’ and for that (as an outsider) the PACS in France seems pretty neat
Oh dear, what a maelstrom!
For some reason my feed hasn’t been updating so I didn’t realise you’d posted in ages…
The US has always struck me as a little Puritanical – rule-abiding. Claiming one’s rules come from God is meant to give them finality – indisputability.
I think a lot of devout Americans fear that a separation of church and state will mean an admission of the irrelevance of religion. If you follow me. I mean, logically, if their religion is correct, then no separation is possible and the state SHOULD be a theocracy.
I suspect the hatred and intolerance grieves the heart of God, rather than pleasing him.
thanks for the post, ysolda. marriage becomes very important to some (me) when told that you cannot have it. i hope we can all get to the point when people can live their lives openly and without fear or hatred or even the dreaded “disapproval” from so-called “friends”. please people- the way i live my life does not influence your life at all. consider returning the favor.
As part of a couple that got married in California before they repealed the gay marriage laws, I too am saddened and frustrated by the election’s results. There was an editorial in our local paper yesterday explaining that, of course my being married to my wife doesn’t really damage any *current* marriages, but it has the potential to damage/belittle future marriages and so should be illegal. Based on that, shouldn’t Las Vegas’ 24-hour drive through marriage businesses be illegal? As far as I’m concerned, let “marriage” be the purview of the churches and make everyone, gay or straight, get a “civil partnership” or some other name in order to be legally responsible for each other.
I really fail to see why it is that I can legally marry a man, and if he gets sick and dies in the days following the wedding I would be the default inheritor with little or no taxes and I would have the ability to decide what treatment he did or did not get, but I cannot legally make the same choices for a woman I have been with for 11 years. If we had not paid to get medical powers-of-attorney written, her family (who hasn’t spoken to her in at least 5 years) would get to make all those decisions and would inherit (except for the fact that she has a will). As it is, the surviving (not legally married) partner could be taxed a huge percentage on any life insurance money and even on their home, depending on how it is owned.
If you don’t think gay marriage should be legal, or are uncertain what all the fuss is about, I recommend you read “Why You Should Give a Damn About Gay Marriage” which discusses the legal aspects of the issue, for the most part completely separate from the religious issue.
Either the US has changed a whole lot in the five years I’ve been away, or I lived in some sort of warped bit. I never felt any pressure towards marriage, and, in fact, never expected to marry. Two of my siblings are living with their (heterosexual) partners, and I know my sister, at least, has no plans to marry her partner of many years. The few close friends of mine who have married have done so for the most prosaic of reasons- health care, tax relief…
I like to think that the blue state/red state dichotomy is exaggerated and fabricated to be divisive, but then something like this makes me think maybe it’s not…I’m from San Francisco.
I was really touched by this post and really wanted to thank you for it. I am a firm believer that the American dream should not be witheld from any of our population based on who they love. I’m lucky enough to live in Seattle where we just passed a similar resolution to the one that Maine voted down, but I am so sad that there is so much discrimination thruout our country. As a minority, I thoroughly understand the effects of discrimination and detest it in any form.
Thanks for speaking out on this!!
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